If you haven’t already read Disagreeing with Love, please read that first.
Homeschooling is not the norm. It is not the easy educational choice. So why have we made the decision to go against the grain and homeschool our children?
I’ve been pondering how to blog about our reasons for homeschooling and I think the best way is to do it over a period of time. Our reasons are many and diverse and have grown and matured over time. So I will attempt to explain where we are in a series of posts, rather than trying to cram too much information into one.
In this post I will focus on why government education (public school) has never been an option for us.
As Christians our family’s goal is to base all of our decisions and opinions on God’s word. We are not always consistent and are thankful that God still loves us and is able to use us for His glory. We realize that we don’t know everything and are not always right. We are learning and growing constantly. My purpose here is to try to convey what we believe and a little about why we believe it.
Some basic presuppositions for this discussion:
- God’s Word, both the Old and New Testaments, is our ultimate standard by which we should live. Human logic and practicality do not trump God’s Word, ever.
- Real knowledge apart from God’s Word does not exist. (Proverbs 1:7, 2:5-6, Col. 2:3, Psalm 111:10, Psalm 53:1)
- According to God’s Word we should be law keepers in as much as the law does not required us to break God’s law. (Romans 13:1-7)
- Christians should train their children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. (Eph. 6:4)
- God has given parents the responsibility to educate their own children. (Deut. 6:4-9)
- Education is not neutral. (Luke 11:23)
Here are some reasons that our family does not believe that government school is a valid option for us as followers of Christ:
The government school system violates the eighth commandment.
The current system is based on legalized theft. The federal government takes money from our family and yours and uses it for the education of others. The government does not earn that money, does not ask us to donate it voluntarily and, as I will explain in my next point, is using it to fund and regulate an area over which it has no lawful authority.
The government is forcing groups of people to financially support things to which they are morally and/or religiously opposed. Roman Catholics must pay for prescription birth control to be passed out to 11 year old girls, Christians are forced to fund programs that teach children about homo s*xuality and offer encouragement and support in that lifestyle choice, and Buddhists pay for required Islamic studies.
Federal involvement in education is unlawful.
The federal involvement in the government school system is contrary to our laws. The Constitution was written to limit the power of the government. Our founding fathers knew that the natural tendency would be for the government to try to grab more and more power and so, in an attempt to preserve our system of checks and balances, the Constitution delineates which powers are given to the federal government and then to make things clear the tenth amendment says:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Read the Constitution. Our federal government was not given authority over education, therefore according to the tenth amendment that power is reserved for the States or the people.
The government schools are systemically godless.
Several Supreme court decisions and continued federal involvement and regulation in the government schools have led to a system where God, the Bible and Christianity are marginalized at best and viewed with disdain and contempt at worst. In our government schools teachers are forbidden by law to pray (Engel v. Vitale) or read the Bible (Abington School District v. Schemmp) in class. They may not directly teach the students about how God’s word applies to every facet of education. (Read this story for one example of how teachers can get into trouble for telling students about God’s truth and love.)
Since our primary goal is that our children would love the Lord their God with all their heart, with all their soul, and with all their might and that they would examine every fact and situation in light of God’s Word, it does not make sense for us to choose to have them educated, for 30 hours each week, in an institution that seeks, by law, to exclude God and His word.
As an aside, I do not think that Christians should fight for “Christian government schools”. This goes back to the theft and law issues. Put yourself in the place of an atheist or Buddhist, or Muslim. Their money is taken to support the government schools. Why should they have to pay to educate our children about Christianity. The problem is systemic.
God gave the responsibility for training children to the parents, not the government. If parents would take the responsibility to educate their children, even though it is difficult, we would not have these problems.
You can read about the beginning of our homeschool journey (way back when I was homeschooled) in my Before the Beginning post. You may also be interested in Why We Homeschool Part 2: Family Goals.
Related posts:
HI! I have been so busy lately that I am only just now reading your blog (for the last few days)! Wow! I can hardly wait until tonight to take it all in. You have posted some really interesting and insightful topics. I look forward to reading all of your recent posts!
Thanks!
[Reply]
Interesting post! I, too, have written a post awhile back about why we homeschool our children, but it is for very different reasons.
If the public school system is inherently wrong, than I am wondering what you would suggest for the families that cannot teach their children at home. There are many single moms who must work outside the home to provide for their families; and many of these mothers did not choose to raise their children on their own. (Some are widowed. Some have been abandoned.)
I am so thankful that I do have the opportunity to teach my children at home, as I have for the past 18 years. However, I just cannot come up with an answer for what some families are to do if the public school system were to be abandoned (as some people would adamantly suggest).
I look forward to the discussion from this post. I would love to hear others’ thoughts.
mama of 13
[Reply]
Kimberly Reply:
May 13th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Laurel,
First let me say that this post doesn’t really describe why we homeschool. (That is still coming.) It is merely expressing why we never considered government education.
Second I do not want to get sidetracked with difficult situations, either government education is unbiblical or it is not. Difficult situations or us not understanding how everything will work out, do not change God’s law or His requirements for His people.
Those things said, I think the single mom dilemma is has several fairly simple solutions.
Biblically the extended family is the first source for help in times of need. The family can supply either help with the actual education of the children or perhaps financial help for a private school. We know some grandparents who are educating their grandchildren while their daughter works to pay the bills.
If the family is unable or unwilling, the church should be the next line of defense and Biblically the church has a special responsibility to the widows and orphans. I know that if our family were in this situation our home church would do everything possible to help keep our children out of the government schools.
Another option is for single moms to homeschool their own children. I am amazed and blessed to know several single moms who have made this decision. It takes amazing dedication, but they have been successful.
Another option is public schools (not government schools). This is the type of system in place in early America. Private citizens got together voluntarily, hired a teacher, acquired, built or borrowed a building (sometimes using space in private homes) and provided an education for their own children.
I also know that many Christian schools provide scholarships for families in need. When I was a girl we knew a single mom of four daughters. The local Christian school educated all of her girls from kindergarten to high school in exchange for her cleaning the facilities after her regular job. She took her children with her and cleaned a couple hours each evening while they studied or played.
The amazing thing is that God always provides and He is not limited by what we can see or understand. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, He will provide for the education of His children.
Thanks so much for your comment, Laurel!
Blessings,
Kimberly
[Reply]
Wow! I’m dumbfounded. Of course I knew NONE of this and can’t wait to share with my husband (he was homeschooled, along with his siblings). The reason his mom decided to homeschool them was way back when his oldest sibling (his sister) was in preschool.
Instead of calling her dad “Daddy” she called him “Poppy”. The school called her mother to tell her, “Your child is not allowed to call your husband that.” When my MIL tried arguing with them the teacher said, “You are not in charge of your child, we are!”
Yup, my MIL pulled her daughter out of there so fast and started homeschooling. In fact, she homeschools my 3-year-old one day a week. I, on the other hand, have had a hard time doing it. She’s still young yet but I just hate arts-n-crafts. I feel out of my element doing this!
[Reply]
I am slowly catching up your blog, Kimberly! I am very behind from having viciously ill children. This post made me smile as I agree wholeheartedly. Very well written.
[Reply]
AMEN. I do not know why more people do not open their eyes and see this. They are teaching our children(not yours and mine obviously, I just mean the children of the nation as a whole) that we came from an ameoba, that became a frog, and then a monkey, and somehow later a man. (refering exageratingly to the evolution theory) What is more baffling is that they actually believe it! It is quite astonishing what they (the government) can actually get people to believe. (the following link clears that one up.) http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html How on earth PS (public school)parents can actually believe it is “good for their kids” to go to ps is beyond me. I sit dumbfounded when I try to imagine their thought process. Homeschooling is truely the only thing that DOES make sence. Bible says “Raise up YOUR child in the way he should go.” doesn’t say… let the government raise your child the way they see fit. Truely even I get lost in scripture now and again, but he is pretty clear when it speaks of raising and teaching your kids. I think all children should be homeschooled. No exceptions. It is the parents responcibility to raise and train their children with their own belief structures. I agree… it is not fair to the different religions to try to group teach their kids, when the religions and beliefs are contradictory one to another. (Like you where saying about the public school setting.) Having different beliefs does not make one or the other right or wrong, but what it DOES do, when you try to teach them all at the same time, in weird chopped up pieces, is make for a whole bunch of really confused, misled, and misguided children. That I do believe is one of the big reasons our nation as a whole is falling apart. The kids do not have any firm and solid foundation in which to get their spiritual footing. They do not know WHAT to believe. People ask me how I can possibly homeschool my kids. My question to them is… how can you possibly send your kids away for 8+ hours a day, and let some stranger you do not even know, fill their heads with things you do not want their heads filled with? How can you willingly subject your kids to that? Take back control of your kids, people. Be the loving, attentive, caring, and teaching parents that God called you to be, when he blessed you with that child. Sorry.. kinda went on a tangent… bottom line… I agree with EVERYTHING Kimberly said whole heartedly!! Very well written gurl! People pay attention to what this woman has to say. God has blessed her with so much knowlage and understanding. She is truely a blessing to us all!
[Reply]
Kimberly, great response to the single mother issue. I was a divorced, single mother of 2 for 2 years. Putting my kids in school (or daycare) was never an option for me. I found work that fit with my goals for my children. I cleaned the church, did part-time medical transcription, and eventually opened my own retail shop. I lived in my parent’s home, and they were glad to have me. No, it was never easy, but doing what is right rarely is. I felt without a doubt that going through a divorce was one of the hardest things my daughters would ever deal with (at least in childhood) and that changing their home life for my convenience or their “education” would compound the problem. It helped them and me to have the stability of a mostly “normal” life as we dealt with this strange new world of singleness. God always makes a way.
[Reply]
Raising Olives Reply:
June 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Thanks for sharing with us Nicki. God is very good.
Blessings,
Kimberly
[Reply]
Thanks for this. I came across it at just the right time. I started school in a small public school back when the teachers prayed with us and read Bible stories to us; we then switched to a Christian school when I was in the second grade, and after that school closed it doors a few years later I finished as a homeschool student. My son has never been in a “public” school; we are blessed to be able to have him in a small Christian school where there are no strangers teaching him things I don’t know about. This school is affiliated with a church of the same denomination as our family, so their their doctrinal teaching agrees with ours.
I don’t want to judge those who send their children to “public” schools; I just couldn’t reconcile a God-less education for my child with my beliefs.
[Reply]
Raising Olives Reply:
August 29th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Wendy,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
[Reply]
Our government was given authority over education by we-the-people, who voted for it and elected respresentatives (way back when) who supported it. When we gave it power to fund and regulate education it became lawful. Mistakes might have been made by the people, but it is an error to speak of government weilding power that we gave it as being unlawful.
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
December 5th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
Your statement makes it obvious that you are confused about the form of government here in the Unites States of America. Your comment makes the assumption that we are a democracy (a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system) The key being “supreme power is vested in the people”. If we were a democracy, then your statement “it is an error to speak of government wielding power that we gave it as being unlawful” would be true and I would have no argument against federal involvement in the government school system apart from God’s Word.
However, the U.S.A. is not a democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic (a government where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people , and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits government’s power over citizens). The key here is “must govern according to existing constitutional law”. This is why our president takes this oath of office,
and members of Congress take this oath,
If the Constitution forbids the federal government power over education, “we the people” can not simply vote for it and or elect representatives who support it and it suddenly become lawful. Our nation is governed by law and “we the people” are not above that law.
It is not the purpose or intent of this blog to educate people in our form of government or to explain the Constitution. I quote the relevant part of the Constitution in my post above and I encourage you to read the rest of the Constitution (it is quite short) to see what lawful power the federal government is given by the Constitution and what power is forbidden.
If you are interested in further discussion about the lawful role of the federal government, especially relating to education, I suggest you check out Spunky Homeschool. Spunky is a talented researcher and has posted extensively about education and government. I appreciate that she goes to original sources and talks to many of the politicians involved. I also know that Nicki at 400 Things enjoys political discussions.
Thanks again for your interest in this topic.
[Reply]
So when I give birth to my son and he comes of age to go to school and I send him to the school in my neighborhood, am I going against god, is that what you are saying? If so, what gives you the right to manipulate the bible to prove that your choice is the godly one? I don’t fault you for homeschooling your children; its your right. I have no desire to make you feel that the choices you are making are not biblical. Don’t I deserve the same from you? You are not god and cannot speak for him. I find it scary that you might be creating a sort of cult that insists on taking gray areas and claiming them, telling people what god would want for us in terms of schooling! Scary!
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
May 5th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
As I state in the post Disagreeing with Love referenced at the beginning of this post, I know that I am not God and that I make mistakes and hold wrong opinions. Because of that fact we welcome any discussion and disagreement that is based on the Word of God.
You say that I am manipulating the Bible to prove that my choice is the Godly one. Which passage or passages am I manipulating?
Since you believe my position is wrong, I look forward to hearing and discussing the Biblical support for yours.
[Reply]
I stumbled upon your blog, and read this post and felt that I wanted to make a comment to your position.
I am the mother of 3 children. I proudly have my two oldest children enrolled in yes, that horrible public school system you spoke of. I am amazed that as believers we think that we have the authority to know what the Lord’s plan is for every parent, for every child and for every family. To argue your point, my children not only are learning their faith in great lengths at home .. including to love him with all their heart, but they also are learning how to defend their faith to others.
My children at a young age have spent time with Mormon and Muslim friends. They have engaged in conversations that most adults (including you) would never find themselves engaged in because they have not only spent time learning their faith … but have spent time learning what it means to “Go and make disciples of all nations”. My children ACTIVELY seek friends who don’t know the Lord … and yes, already are winning them to Christ!
I would never find myself in a place to judge a family for the education choice they make – private, public or homeschool. The Lord has entrusted our children into our lives and I am CERTAIN in doing so, he has a plan and path for each of them. In our home, we take each day and each year one at a time. We have had amazing teachers (YES … strong believers). We have made incredible friends, my children have learned that the world doesn’t all look like them or believe like them. When they come home, it is under my roof that they learn these things … and get the foundation of the rock of the word in their heart. They then take that out … and spread it!
There is a great book you should read. I challenge you to read it. “Going Public” is it’s name. Instead of being so judgmental of other families, perhaps you should educate yourself on exactly WHY those of us in public schools feel very sure we have been CALLLED THERE BY OUR LORD! It’s not a mistake, or a second choice, or being lazy or unwilling that I don’t homeschool … I have made a an ACTIVE CHOICE to put my children in the public school. Perhaps you should consider that when slamming your fellow brother or sister in Christ. Did you hear what the Lord said to them??
Go read Acts again, my friend. The church was scattered for a reason … to make more disciples. While you live in your bubble and exclude your children from the world, some of us are not only “Training up our child in the way he should go” but we are also teaching them how to “make disciples of all nations”.
Judge less … get the plank out of your eye!
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 7:14 am
Christie thank you so much for taking the time to comment and express your family’s opinion on this topic.
This post is simply meant to point out areas where our family sees that the government school system violates God’s Word. As Christians, we are not our own, we are bought with a price, we must obey God as He has revealed Himself to us in His Word and we may not lean on our own understanding.
I clearly state at the beginning of this post that we don’t know everything and that we are still learning. In the “Disagreeing with Love” post that I link to, I encourage discussion that is based on God’s Word. “As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.”
If you’d like to discuss ANY of the points in my post, how you think that the government schools do not violate the eighth commandment, do not violate the Constitution or are not systemically godless then I would be happy to talk that out with you. However, you have simply accused me of doing many things that I have not done.
I do not claim that children who go to the government schools aren’t taught God’s Word at home. I do not claim that parents who send their children to government schools are lazy and I do not claim to “know what the Lord’s plan is for every parent, for every child and for every family”.
I do not “find myself in a place to judge a family for the education choice they make – private, public or homeschool”. If you read this blog you will see that over and over I stress that parents are responsible for the education of their children. God clearly gives parents the responsibility for their children and God is the only one to whom you must answer.
You accuse me of judging others, but I simply lay out the reasons that OUR family has chosen not to send OUR children to the government schools. You mention in your comment that you wouldn’t judge a family for their educational choice and yet you say this about our family.
That sounds a lot like you are condemning/judging us for our educational choice.
The fact of the matter is that you do not know about our family’s and children’s efforts to “make disciples of all nations”. Our children have friends who are Latter-Day Saints and/or unbelievers, they reach out to unbelievers in order to share their faith. They are, to the best of our ability, being trained to reach the nations.
Allow me to quote the entire passage of which you quoted a portion:
The command isn’t merely to “make disciples”, but to teach them to observe all that Jesus has commanded. Christians are commanded not to steal and we are commanded to obey those laws which do not cause us to violate the laws of God. If you’d like to discuss how the government schools obey God’s Word in these areas I’d love to be able to learn from you.
[Reply]
I will discuss with you about your thoughts on the government and schools. Your assertion that the gov’t is stealing from you to educate others is very skewed. In reality, the first American town to set up a taxpayer-funded public school was Dedham, Mass. on the southwest side of Boston in 1643. Children needed to learn to read, it was decided, in order to understand the Bible. Bear in mind that this is fewer than 25 years after the Pilgrims landed, long before George Washington and the other Founding Fathers were even born.
It was a seminal step for the colonists, one that would shape the kind of society they wanted to be. James Russell Lower, the nineteenth-century poet and commentator noted, “It was in making education not only common to all, but in some sense compulsory on all, that the destiny of the free republics of America was settled.
After the revolution, one of the early laws passed by the young U.S. Congress was the Land Ordinance of 1785, which detailed how real estate would be handled on the western frontier – and effectively established the public school system. This ordinance declared that surveyors should mark off townships 6 miles wide and 6 miles long, subdivided into 36 sections of 1 square mile each. Congress went on to declare that Section 16 .. right in the middle of the township, would be set aside for yes, maintaining the Public School. From the very beginnings of our free country; the public school tax payer system was established … it was one of the very principles that set apart our country from the rest of the world that even today still struggles to provide .. the basic education to every child. Most parents simply look across the ocean and only wish. Indeed, our country was birthed with this system in place … it is one of the very reasons we are one of the most powerful countries in the world. Have you ever traveled to a third world country? Have you considered the least of these? Have you ever worked in a title 1 school and looked into the face of a child that only eats when they come to school on their “Free Lunch”? You quickly give scripture as your defense … but what do you believe your Lord would say when you say that you believe your money shouldn’t be “Stolen” from you to educate others? Have you considered those children who eat, receive an education and more from what our tax dollars provide? Perhaps you should spend some time in a school where 80% of children are on free lunch/breakfast. When he said care for the “least of these” … he meant it! That too my friend, is scriptural. And believe me, he talked far more of the orphans, widows and foreigners among us then he did of your choice in a school.
As well, I will address your point about what the bible says about what education system you should choose for your children. In fact, The bible doesn’t .. it hardly talks about “Schools” at all. Only once in Acts 19:9 does it mention in passing that the apostle Paul borrowed somebody’s “school”. Neither will you find the words “Education” or “educate”. This does not mean, however, that God does not care about the training and shaping of our minds and children’s minds. I believe you are right when he says we should “train up a child in the way he should go” … he also says that “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” Proverbs 9:10. So, as a parent then am I to believe that just because my children learn their writing, reading, science in school that I am not training them up or teaching them the fear of the Lord? No, most certainly that is not true …
As parents, the choice of school system is one that is a personal choice. You say that you are not judging others for making one different than yours yet, you make a point of saying
“Here are some reasons that our family does not believe that government school is a valid option for followers of Christ”. You have created many posts that you work to draw your point as to your choice vs. another.
You do not distinguish that the Lord has called your family there … but your next points simply make a point that as followers of Christ at large we should not believe or look at it as a “Valid option”. Really, you say that isn’t judgement?
Are you also boldly saying that you do not believe God is present in a public school?
If that is the case, then let me ask, do you believe he is present in the hearts of those whom have invited him there? Do you believe if my child has invited Christ into his/her heart, if a teacher is walking with the Lord … then Christ is present in them? Then I will argue, indeed, the the Lord IS present in the public school system … as 88% of Evangelical Christians send their kids to public schools.
You are correct, the “Curriculum” may not include God’s word … but didn’t he tell me that that is my role? And don’t we know that often our actions speak far greater than those words? You yourself said it is my role to teach those characteristics. So, I would argue with you then, that as a follower of Christ, I do homeschool my children … but starting at the age of 5, I also send them to a public school for additional information …
I have MANY friends that home school their children. My own sister in law home schools her children. I would willingly take on the role myself (as one with several degrees … including a Masters in Education), however, as I sought my Lord on what he wanted for the children he entrusted me with … I heard clearly, and with great peace that right now, it’s in the halls of a public school.
What I do have a problem with is that in creating your points as to why you have made that decision for your family, you have failed to consider that the Lord does call us into different places. He does so with reason.
While I respect your opinions, I believe you should choose your words more carefully as you have an appearance that your choice is the ONLY RIGHT choice.
Many of us have made prayerful, and intentional decisions to place our children in the public school. It is often in this place that the Lord (who is VERY present), can use us to effectively affect our neighbor … to love on them as we are told. While you have your reasons for homeschooling, that I can respect, I challenge you to consider that your ways are not the only way. If we are each seeking the bible as truth, and his discernment for our lives … then perhaps your neighbor who has made a very different choice should be shown the same respect you look to receive when you share your insights into homeschool here … with their insights, reasons, and experiences outside their own home – through public/private education. I don’t believe you would want me to create my blog into a place that works to destroy and give discredit to those who home school? Why then, would you feel that doing so to your “Neighbor” in their decisions to place their children in the public school is appropriate?
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Thank you again Christie for your reply.
First let’s discuss the idea that the government school system is violating the eighth commandment. You say, “Your assertion that the gov’t is stealing from you to educate others is very skewed.” You then go on to speak of the history of the government schools, their funding and their performance compared to the rest of the world. None of this addresses the Biblical issue of the eighth commandment. Passing a law and making something ‘legal’ does not make it godly.
Your remaining argument on this point is that we are to ‘do unto the least of these’. You are absolutely right, we as Christians are required to care for the orphan and the widow.
According to your argument our family is actually doing more for ‘the least of these’ than you are. We are paying our taxes and funding those school lunch programs, sports programs and educational programs, but our children are not using any of those resources, 100% of our contribution is able to go to those whom you call the ‘least of these’.
If caring for the least of these is your main concern then you should encourage all Christians, who are financially able, to pull their children out of the government schools so there will be more resources for those who are truly in need.
You asked if I’ve been to a third world country, yes. I worked with lepers in Thailand, both children and adults, whose families had abandoned them. Perhaps if I wasn’t compelled to pay for the U.S. educational system I would have more money to support those for whom God has burdened my heart.
Perhaps if you weren’t compelled to pay for the sports programs and marching bands of government schools you would have more resources to help those children who only eat when they come to school for the free lunch program.
But that is all simply a rabbit trail and has no bearing on the real issue. Our responsibility to care for the ‘least of these’ does not give us license to violate God’s other laws. We are to accomplish this, God’s task, God’s way, as He has revealed in His Word.
What I mean is that in our quest to care for the orphan and widow, we may not violate God’s law. We may not kill rich people who do not freely give to the least of these in order to pass out their money, we may not earn money for the least of these by means of prostitution and we may not take from others that which we have no Biblical right to take in order to care for the least of these.
The question at hand is, do the government schools violate the eighth commandment, not are they doing something good with the proceeds?
I want to try to make my next point clearly. If you choose to send your children to the government school, I do not condemn you for that. As a matter of fact, in my post I clearly state that this is the belief of our family. How you educate your children is your choice, your God-given responsibility and it is something between you and God. Bottom line, it is none of my business.
Now, in our opinion, the government school system violates the principles of God’s Word and because of that the government schools are not a valid option for our family as believers. God calls His people to obedience. He will not call them to violate His Word. Does He sometimes allow us to follow a path that is different from His revealed will in order to bring honor and glory to Himself and to accomplish growth in those He loves? Yes. Is it something to which we should aspire? Of course not.
I understand that these things seem to contradict each other. I am your sister in Christ despite the fact that I am often impatient. You should love me and accept me where I am, but just as I encourage my children to greater thought, consideration and obedience of God’s Word, so you should encourage me in the same manner.
That is the heart of this post, that is my heart. If I am wrong in my application or understanding of scripture or if I am wrong in my characterization of the government school system, that is what we should discuss.
Disagreeing as we try to apply and follow God’s Word is not being judgmental. God’s Word is the final authority. It is what will stand in judgment at the last day.
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Christie,
I just noticed that in the above comment you misquoted me.
In my post I say, “Here are some reasons that our family does not believe that government school is a valid option for us as followers of Christ”, you left out the words that I put in bold and that changes the meaning quite a bit.
I am not saying, as you claim,
I am simply stating our family’s position, reasons and thoughts on this topic.
[Reply]
While you both talk about not judging and such, I just thought that I would point out that the name of the “Mormon” church is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. We do believe in Jesus Christ as the name of our church implies. It would be nice if you both looked more into other religions before you blatantly call out a religion as being a non-believer when we are Christians and “believers” as you call it just like you are.
[Reply]
Kimberly @ Raising Olives Reply:
August 24th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Kim,
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
I’d like to point out that I never stated nor implied that LDS did not believe in Jesus Christ. I have looked into the religion of the Latter-Day Saints, in addition to having friends who hold to it. My statements were not made out of ignorance and I chose my words carefully.
The term ‘Christian’ is generally defined as one who believes in the teachings of Christ as revealed in the Bible. When Christians (which both Christie and I are) use the term believer, we mean the same thing. If you read the post that I referenced at the beginning of this post, Disagreeing with Love you will see that I believe that Christians are commanded to judge. We are to judge rightly, with humility and love and only after we’ve judged ourselves.
The debate between historic Christianity and Latter-Day Saints, who did NOT want to be called Christians or classified with Christian denominations until recently {Joseph Smith said that Christian denominations were “all wrong … all their creeds were an admonition in his sight”} and preferred the term saints, comes in the view of God, the origin of Jesus Christ, means of salvation, exclusive authority of the Bible and more.
LDS teaching about God
Biblical teaching about God Numbers 23:19, “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent… Romans 1:22, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man…” and Psalms 102:26-27, “They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”
LDS teaching of the origin of Jesus Christ
Biblical teaching of the origin of Christ Luke 1:35 “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God”
LDS teaching on the means of Salvation
Biblical teaching of Salvation 1 John 1:7 “and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” and Revelation 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”
LDS view of the BIble
Christians believe that the Bible is the only inspired Word of God and as such is sufficient for all of our life.
As a Christian, I am not my own, I am bought with a price. I can not call those who deny clear and vital teachings of the Bible, Christians. That would be neither loving nor kind. Calling oneself a Christian does nothing for the salvation of one’s soul.
Our prayer is that Latter-Day Saints will turn to the Bible as the only Word of God and will receive the salvation provided for sinners by the death and resurrection of the only begotten Son of the one and only eternal God. In the meantime we show our friends who hold to these teachings, love, kindness and friendship to the best of our ability.
[Reply]
JoyfulMom Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Well said!
[Reply]
As a mother of 5 small children, I have enjoyed reading your blog for a while now and found inspiration from your experience and dedication to the Lord. After reading this discussion, as an LDS person, I just don’t feel it anymore. You have many quotes, but if you talked with a Latter Day Saint you could get much more clarity. I am not saying you have to believe what we believe, I just feel a bit disrespected. I respect others beliefs and will not go back and forth as interpretations are often the only difference. I just don’t feel welcome here anymore. As for the Book of Mormon, it is the keystone of our religion, it is very sacred to us, and we do not want people to pray for us to change our belief. We are very firm and happy just the way we are. I love my religion with all my heart, mind and might and it just feels bad to read comments like this. Good luck to you and your sweet family. You are a wonderful mother.
[Reply]
Along with Pricilla, I am also sadly feeling disrespected. As a member of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints I honor and worship OUR (meaning yours and mine) Savior. Do not pray for me…pray for those that seek our Savior and the Atonement in their own lives, I have found it. I am curious where you are getting your quotes…obviously you sighted the sources, but have you read the full accounts or are you attending religous classes where “LDS Bashing” is taught? Have you read the 13 Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We are all sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father…may I be more like my 8 year old son as he prayed last night “help us to all be more like Jesus Christ.” I am trying, but I also get upset sometimes. Would it make you comfortable to believe that most religions have good in them, bringing a person closer to our Savior?
[Reply]
Hi again,
I have had the things that you said on my mind since yesterday and posted my full reaction on my website. http://www.petercilladickinson.blogspot.com
I didn’t put it on your blog because I used the word unkind and I didn’t think that it would be published. I just thought I would let you know because there is a link back to your discussion.
[Reply]